Old Gods and New Pagans
"Old Gods & New Pagans" is a welcoming space for new and curious pagans, heathens, and animists to explore the basics of paganism. Rooted in an Animist perspective, this podcast takes an inclusive approach, covering topics relevant to a variety of pagan paths. Each episode breaks down complex ideas into simple, easy-to-understand language, with guest discussions, stories, and insights. Whether you're just starting your pagan journey or looking to learn more, join us as we dive into the wisdom of the old gods and the practices of modern pagans.
Old Gods and New Pagans
Ep. 4 Embracing Your Pagan Path: Coming Out of the Broom Closet
When the whispers of your heart echo a pagan path, the decision to share that truth can be as daunting as it is liberating. In our latest soul-stirring conversation, we traverse the complexities of 'Coming Out of the Broom Closet,' a rite of passage for many in the pagan community. I open up about my own journey, laying bare the intricacies of these deeply personal crossroads. We consider why one might choose to reveal their spiritual transformation and the consequences that follow — a melding of vulnerability with the empowering embrace of one's true self.
Navigating the intricate dance between personal belief and the perceptions of those we hold dear, we delve into the art of conversation with family and friends post-revelation. Sharing stories from my life, we dissect the best ways to bring those closest to us along on our spiritual evolution without breeding conflict. It's a delicate balance of educating the unfamiliar, quelling misconceptions, and shining a light on the enriching aspects of the pagan way. Whether you're considering opening up about your beliefs or supporting someone who is, our discussion is a guiding star for respectful and heartfelt communication.
We wrap up by dispelling the myths that shroud paganism in mystery and misunderstanding, with a practical guide for those ready to step out of the shadows. The breadth of our discussion extends to maintaining harmony within diverse belief systems and finding a supportive community, whether you're a newcomer or a seasoned practitioner. Indeed, this conversation is not just about the 'how' but also the 'why' of sharing your path — it's about connection, growth, and the universal quest for understanding that binds us all. Join us as we journey through enlightenment, support, and the joys of living a life aligned with the rhythm of the natural world.
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Intro Music Hello everyone, this is Matt bringing you another edition of Old Gods and New Pagans. This is episode 4, coming Out of the Broom Closet. So let's go ahead and dive right in. Coming out of the broom closet what does this mean? It's a common term used by pagans and people of non-Abrahamic faiths to come out to the public, their friends, family, co-workers, etc. About their new spirituality and their new belief systems. There's some debate over the term, but it's the most commonly known, so that's what we're going with today. So what does this mean?
Matt:Coming out of the broom closet is essentially telling your friends and family about your new spiritual path. It's often done when leaving Christianity or really any other Abrahamic faiths. This can be a shock to those around you, so we're going to go into why you should or shouldn't do it and how it will affect others, including yourself. How should you Best practices, who do you tell, what do you say and kind of next steps and moving on. So let's kind of go in. So why would you come out to your friends and family? What do you gain from this and what's going on?
Matt:There's a couple of reasons why people do this. One is really just as a shock factor to family and friends. When they're leaving, like the Abrahamic faiths, like Christianity, when they're leaving their church, they're kind of burnt a lot of let's see a lot of religious trauma going on there, so they, you know, kind of want to shock their friends and family. Um, I'll tell you, this really only works to alienate yourself from your closest community of your family and friends. Um, I don't recommend this approach and if that's the only reason why you want to come out of the broom closet, I personally don't recommend it. Um, because one, it kind of alienates yourself, like I said, and it pushes everyone else away and you lose that community and you lose those family connections and those friendships along the way, and that really doesn't have any benefits, unless you just absolutely want to burn some bridges. If this is your only reason to come out, I wouldn't do it. Another reason is just to be honest with yourself and the people around you. But another reason is just to be honest with yourself and the people around you. This is a really good reason and you should explain, or use this as a moment to explain, what paganism is to those around you and kind of the path you're going on. Another reason would be to try to bring others into your practice.
Matt:This is kind of a weird one because pagans don't typically recruit. I'm not saying that paganism can't recruit other people to the spirituality, but that's really not what paganism is about. It's kind of finding your own path, not pulling people kicking and screaming into ours. But we kind of welcome others with open arms. Like with paganism, the doors are always open. So we welcome anyone in to explore the path, no matter where they come from, even those Abrahamic fates. We do not push anyone else away unless there are some like problematic things going on with that Typically white supremacy.
Matt:A lot of this is xenophobia and the gatekeeping that happens in some of the branches of paganism. We kind of shun some of that stuff and we kind of push it away. We shouldn't completely ostracize those people because we want to keep those lines of communication open, which is going back to the earlier point about you know, coming out to shock family and friends. It really isn't helpful because you still want to keep those lines of dialogue open. Don't burn your bridges, because you know if you can open their eyes to what paganism is and what it means for you, you can build some close relationships with these people. You know we can agree to disagree on some of this stuff, guys. We can have these people in our lives that are not pagan, but we can keep those friendly dialogues open.
Matt:Someone I work with he's absolutely Christian and I'm absolutely pagan, but we have some really good intellectual discussions about some of this stuff and it's really cool because we're both interested in each other's spirituality. Even though we know we're not going to convert the other, it's still a really nice communication that goes on between us, kind of deep diving into the lore, the history, the mythology of both paths. It's a lot of fun and those connections are still strong and those connections are still valuable. So even though we don't really recruit or bring people into our path, we can still open those dialogues, be honest with the people around us and kind of the three main reasons for coming out of the broom closet to shock your friends and family, to recruit or to be honest with yourself. I would recommend that you know if you want to bring. I would recommend that if you want to talk to people and come out of the broom closet, it's really just to be honest with yourself and to be honest with the people around you, to shock friends and to recruit. It doesn't work. People are in their paths. So the only thing we could really do is just show how we live and give them an example for our lives, and if that's what they want, then they will come to paganism on their own.
Matt:Recruiting is a Christian thing and I think we should kind of distance ourselves from that sort of thing. So another you know question is like how do you come out to your friends and family about it? First, you know, make sure you know enough to answer the most basic questions they will ask, because you know they're going to ask those questions. You should approach this very calmly. Questions you should approach this very calmly. Don't start an argument, don't get all emotional and angry and start throwing things around like your religion sucks, things like that. You should distance yourself from those things.
Matt:Try to stay calm, come into this with an open mind, an open heart and create those lines of dialogue and discuss these things civilly with the person you're coming out to. You want to establish that level of trust, that level of openness. Whatever emotions you bring to the table will influence the person you're talking to. So if you come with anger, they're going to reply with anger. If you come with fear, they're going to kind of push that off too and they'll notice that. So don't be argumentative, don't be hostile, otherwise the person you're talking to will mirror those emotions and it's not productive at all.
Matt:You should explain that this is what makes you happy and at peace spiritually. I can't stress this enough. When you open these dialogues and you talk to somebody about your new pagan path, you should let them know that this is what makes you happy and it puts you at peace and you're not afraid, you're not scared, you're not um, you don't have all these negative emotions anymore because, like for me and my personal path, like I had so many negative emotions. I had anger, rage, I was a really, really violent person in my mind. When I started going down this pagan path, I started gaining so much peace. Like it's unreal the difference in my own personal like mentality. You know, coming down this path because I was pushed into Christianity for so long and all these rules and everything like that that I never agreed with. But I just followed it because culturally, living in the South, that's just what you did. But when I was honest with myself about my pagan spirituality and I'm a practicing animist, so I'm more about the nature, less about the gods uh, myself personally. So when I started spending more time in nature and really focusing on that, like all those negative emotions kind of went out the door. So explain that to your friends and family. If that's your path, if that's you know how you feel that that's a good thing to bring up, that it's less negativity in your mind, your heart, and it really pushes you into a more open, happier place.
Matt:I don't recommend starting with any criticisms of your previous religion Christianity, judaism, islam, any other religions. Don't start with criticisms like your religion sucks and all these things in your book that don't add up. Leave that stuff alone. That's for a debate later. But when you're coming out to your friends and family, I would recommend staying away from those sorts of things. It just creates debates, creates arguments and it's not productive. It just creates debates, creates arguments and it's not productive. It will do nothing but widen the divide between you and the other people. Just learn from my experience.
Matt:When I first started going down this pagan path, I was posting all the edgy memes on the internet, on social media, and getting in arguments with people in my friends list about you know certain things and like when they post something about their religion I would like make their, make some witty comments and it never did good. I lost a lot of Facebook friends over that and uh, you know it is what it is, um, but you know, thinking back, you know I kind of regret breaking those connections because those were some good people and people I really cared about and they're kind of out of my life now. But you know it is what it is. So try to stay away from the criticisms of your previous religion and, just, you know, again, approach it calmly and talk about positive things, about your happiness, your peace, etc. And try to explain to the people what really draws you to the path. And try to explain to the people what really draws you to the path.
Matt:Another thing to consider of why and why not and how to come out to your friends and family consider that there may be some backlash. If you're a minor, if you're a child, how will your parents react? I don't condone lying to your parents or keeping things from them, but just consider how they're going to react. Are you going to be grounded? Are you going to be forced into church, things like that? Consider those things in depth. Consider the future ramifications of what this is going to cause in your family situation. As a child or living at home, you can't just leave. So consider how your parents will react to this. Don't try to set up a little altar in secret and try to hide it from your parents, because they'll find it. They will. I mean that's a given. Your parents have access to your room. They can't hide anything from them. So just consider that when you come out and again, be open, Be respectful to these people, be respectful to your parents and stay calm. Consider how your spouse may react, because there can be some division in there. You know arguments about how you raise your children and things like that. So again, stay calm, approach this with an open mind and kind of go through that.
Matt:Um, then you start wondering. You know, like, who do you tell first? Then you start wondering you know, like, who do you tell first? I believe in like. You have circles of people around you. So you have the people that are like, directly around you. That's going to be your spouse, your children, if you're living at home, your parents, roommates, whatever. Those are the people that you know are around you. Then you have, you know, a wider group of friends, coworkers, and then you have the public at large, you know. Then you have, you know, a wider group of friends, coworkers, and then you have the public at large. You know you have like three rings of people and relationships around you.
Matt:With who do you tell? First, you know, prioritize those who need to know and kind of start in that closest circle, like, okay, so your spouse, your parents, your roommates, your girlfriend, boyfriend, you know the people living there with you. Like do they need to know? Like are you going to church anymore? So obviously you should. You know, let that person know that, hey, this is my path, I'm not doing this, other things anymore.
Matt:I do recommend that even if your spouse does stay with the Abrahamic you know they're Christian, whatever you know you can still go to church with them, you know, be with them. You don't have to believe what they believe, you don't have to go through all the motions. You can be respectful and still offer support to your spouse. Me being pagan for several years now, I still will go to the church just to show my wife support. That's just who I am and it's okay. Like you won't burn the church down just by stepping in the doors and you don't have to agree with what they agree with, but you can show support to your family and friends that you actually love. So again, start with those closest to you your spouse, your children, your parents. You know, if they need to know, let them know.
Matt:Some people simply just don't need to know your co-workers, like business clients, your extended family, the cousin that you haven't talked to in 20 years like, do you really need to ring them up and tell them, hey, I'm a pagan. Now, it's kind of silly. It's like do you really need to go into these details about your spirituality? And you know, with paganism that's really kind of a personal thing, like it's not something that you wear. Well, I say it's not something you wear on the outside, but my shirt kind of shows it right now. But really, like, do these people at large need to know the intricate details of your spirituality? Probably not.
Matt:Um, you know again, kind of go with that need to know. These are your coworkers, your clients, your extended family. So if you have a coworker that's constantly inviting you out to their church or to this or that or to other religious things, maybe you can kind of pull them aside and say, hey, you know, thank you for the invitation, but I just want you to know I do not follow that religion, I am on a different path. And you know, again, as I said before, stay calm, stay respectful and just kind of move on. Just say, hey, you know, I appreciate the invitation but I'm respectfully declining. You know it's a respectfully declining, you know it's a polite way to do this and to, yeah, just keep those relationships open.
Matt:So if you have those coworkers that have a different path, you know you can talk to them and you know, keep those lines of communication open so that maybe they eventually come down your path. You know it's something like that. You can kind of help them understand. And that's one thing that I want to do with this podcast is kind of open that level of dialogue and maybe open up people's eyes to paganism becoming more mainstream so people would understand it more and they're not just like devil worshipers over there. You know they're people with lives and you know our moral compass isn't broken. You know we have real strong morals in the pagan community and we want to show that. You know and like kind of moving on.
Matt:You know when you think about, you know who you tell how. You tell them what you know do they need to know? You know you think about what do you tell them? You tell them what do they need to know? You think about what do you tell them? Again, what they need to know. They need to know what paganism is. It's a nature based belief system. In its core it's not a monotheistic religion like Christianity, islam, judaism or any of the other monotheistic religions. You know we believe in multiple gods and goddesses, or sometimes none at all. There are animist pagans out there that don't really believe specifically in the gods and goddesses and that they're just aspects of either the natural world or human nature. So let people know that you know specifically what you believe and let them know that these are very old belief systems that go beyond some of the newer religions like Christianity and Islam. So let them know that these are old belief systems and that you're getting back to your roots. You know that's kind of what sets us apart from a lot of the major religions.
Matt:When talking about paganism, it's kind of fun to let them know that pagan originates from the Latin paganus, which was just used at the end of the Roman Empire to name those who practiced a religion other than Christianity, judaism etc. It really just meant country dweller. It was likely a name given because Christianity really spread more quickly in cities where people were kind of like following the new fad, the new fashion in the city, and then those people in the country were less likely to convert or later to convert. So they just kind of called them the period equivalent of like hillbilly or redneck or you know those country folks over there. So that's kind of where the term pagan come from. It's a little fun fact that I like to, you know, tell people that pagan was really just it was almost the level of a derogatory term at the time, but we've embraced it and we continue on it because it's the best thing. That kind of explains us. You know we're the people out in the country, we're the nature worshipers, you know it's also important to tell people what paganism is not.
Matt:Paganism is not devil worship. Most pagans don't believe in the devil or even believe in the concept of an all evil being. So that's kind of important to let them know that, like you know, just because we're pagan, you know we don't really follow that devil thing Because that's a, you know, strictly Christian ideal is the devil. Paganism isn't about human sacrifice. Important to let them know that many religions, even including the Abrahamic, included human sacrifice at one time. Not any longer. Paganism doesn't practice that, and neither does Judaism. I mean, I've Common story in the Christian Bible or the Old Testament. Is Abraham willingly going to sacrifice his son? So if he was going to do that, you've got to consider that human sacrifice was part of that religion at one time too. So when people want to ask, does pagans practice human sacrifice, the answer is no, not anymore. None of the religions do, but most of them did at some point. It's important to kind of consider that Also.
Matt:What paganism is not is it's not about hedonism, the pursuit of pleasure and self-indulgence over everything else. Most pagans take a conservative approach to life in order to not upset any balances. Most pagans take a conservative approach to life in order to not upset any balances. We don't have any of these strict moral rules of sexuality that some of the religions do. So that may be why we get that idea of hedonism, that we're not strictly confined by these rulesence or um celibacy and things like that, and so that may be why we get that image. But most pagans are very conservative in their approach of life.
Matt:So now that you've come out of the broom closet, you know, you've kind of figured out who you need to tell, what you're going to tell them, how you're going to tell them this Again, calmly. What should you do after that? Once you've told them then what happens? Or you know, kind of going on, you should just continue on with your life. Some people that you tell will take it well, others will not. There's nothing you can do about that. How they react is on them, not on you. As long as you approached it calmly, you didn't create anger division with your words and actions, you know anything that they reciprocate on their end is on them. Try not to burn any bridges. Allow you know. Once you've provided that information you know, step back. Allow your family and friends to process and understand what you've told them.
Matt:Next step is to learn and to grow. Continue on your path. Learn your path. Study your mythology if you're following one of the different pantheons, learn into the gods and goddesses of your chosen path and really dive deep, not just to them as people or as gods, but really focus on what they represented. So you have, you know, the god Odin, and he represents wisdom as one of his representations. You know, really think about what wisdom means, and you know the pursuit of knowledge that Odin embodied, you know. Take that upon yourself. And you know the pursuit of knowledge that odin embodied, you know. Take that upon yourself. Pursue the knowledge. Learn as much as you can about this stuff and learn as much as you can about the natural world beyond the pagan path you've chose. It's so powerful to learn like. Like, if you see a plant you don't understand, they've got tons of apps out there. Learn what that plant does. You know all the different alkaloids and the toxins or medicines that are in that plant. It's kind of fun to start like diving into the stuff and understanding the natural world and how everything is so interconnected and how balances are kept in nature. It's so interesting and I recommend you kind of learn in. You know, lean into that and learn and grow more.
Matt:Another big thing you know what do you do is you make connections. You continue to connect with your friends and family, even though they are not on your pagan path. Don't allow yourself to be bullied or disrespected, though, and do not bully and disrespect others, people that are not on the path. It's very important. You know we're. It's very important. We're trying to make these connections. We're trying to build public awareness and understanding of paganism. If you're always combative, it does nothing but harm the community at large and I recommend finding a good community. There are a number of pagan communities out there that will help you grow and find resources. There are some problematic communities out there, but there are also some really great ones. If you have trouble finding a community that makes you feel included and not problematic, definitely reach out to me on social media email through the website contact forms, whatever Reach out to me, and social media email through the website contact forms, whatever Reach out to me, and I will help you find a community. Something we're kind of doing in the background is we're building a nonprofit organization called the Pagan Project and one of the big goals of that is the public awareness aspect of paganism, but also making those connections and helping people connect with each other in different communities, finding the community that fits them. We have one major community that allows everyone in, but if you want a more niche community specifically to Celtic paganism, slavic paganism, norse paganism etc. We can help you find those. Or indigenous pagan etc. We can help you find those or indigenous pagan paths. We can help you find those different communities that will help you out.
Matt:So, to recap, when deciding to tell people about your pagan path or coming out of the broom closet, remember a few things. Why you want to tell them is just be honest with yourself. I'm telling you to be honest with yourself of why you actually want to tell people. If it's just a shock and awe campaign, I recommend not trying it. It's going to do nothing but burn bridges and in the long run, it's going to hurt you more than it will help you.
Matt:Think about who you should tell Only those that actually need to know, like your close friends and close family. Not everyone needs to know. Consider what you tell them. Not everyone needs to know. Consider what you tell them. You know what they need to know specifically, just to ease their minds and so that they can gain some understanding that they can take and process later.
Matt:And you know what do you do next? You continue on your path, you learn and grow and you stay connected with the people that matter to you, no matter what their beliefs are. It's all about making connections. Even if we don't believe the exact same things, you know, it's okay, we can still make those connections and we can still like support and help each other. So just remember, stay on the path, explore all the possibilities out there. And, yeah, thanks for listening. New episode will come out soon about specifically explaining your beliefs to the Christians, so it'll kind of help the next steps on this. So if you want to wait to come out of the broom closet until you hear that upcoming episode, do so. Listen to the previous episodes about what paganism is, what animism is and kind of a little bit of Norse paganism in there too. Yeah, thanks for listening. Keep it real, guys.
